Le TOPIC de MadVR (v0.92.17)

» 10 Fév 2021 18:47

Polopretress a écrit:@michelB2

Oui, ca doit venir de ton VP.

désolé pour la réponse tardive.
Tout est possible , mais cela fonctionnait avant que Nvidia arrête de supporter la 3d.
A moins que ce ne soit madvr qui est fait qq chose sur ces dernières betas. Sur quelle beta madvr es-tu ?

» 10 Fév 2021 19:22

la 114.
A ce propos, faut que j'update puisque j'ai droit a ce joli message au début d'un film...
La 115 ne me tentait pas trop puisque j'avais vu qu'elle consommait + en rendering. (2 a 3 msec de mémoire)

Faudrait que je regarde, d'autres beta + récente sont peut etre + optimisée.

edit: wtf on est a la version 123 !!
(faut que je regarde ce qui a été fait entre 115 et 123...)

» 10 Fév 2021 19:58

Polopretress a écrit:la 114.
A ce propos, faut que j'update puisque j'ai droit a ce joli message au début d'un film...
La 115 ne me tentait pas trop puisque j'avais vu qu'elle consommait + en rendering. (2 a 3 msec de mémoire)

Faudrait que je regarde, d'autres beta + récente sont peut etre + optimisée.

edit: wtf on est a la version 123 !!
(faut que je regarde ce qui a été fait entre 115 et 123...)

Je crois que c'est passé de 115 à 123. madshi ne recommande pas la 123 si c'est pour se faire plaisir, elle sert surtout à finaliser le tone mapping, il a ajouté plein de paramétrages dont un qui se fait en manipulant une courbe. Une vraie usine à gaz. J'imagine que la version finale sera plus simple à utiliser. Pour le moment, j'ai l'impression que les utilisateurs avertis de madVR servent surtout à déboguer et améliorer le DTM du ENVY. J'espère me tromper :roll:

» 10 Fév 2021 20:36

perso j'ai la 120 et elle marche très bien et surtout elle n'a pas les dernieres nouveautés d'une complexité sans nom !

» 10 Fév 2021 20:48

Je vais mettre ici avant d'analyser.
En meme temps c'est le topic de madvr donc cela a sa place

New test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure116.zip

1) Based on your test results I've decided to drop "desat y, y', r and r'", and stick to "desat i", which seems to be the most reliable desat method to avoid problems like pinkish reds etc.

2) I've added a "don't allow dumb desat to increase saturation" option, which may help with Atomic Blonde. Hopefully with no negative side effects?

3) I've added "desat 3" and "desat 4" options, which work somewhat similar to "desat 2", but are more selective in which hues are desaturated. Basically "desat 2" desaturates all hues more or less similarly. "desat 4" works somewhat similar to dumb desat in that it leaves very pure hues alone while still desaturating mixed colors. And "desat 3" is somwhere in between "desat 2" and "desat 4". Actually, I'm thinking that maybe, if we're lucky, one of these can replace dumb desat?

4) I've added a "power"/strength option for the desat 2-4 options.

5) Dumb desat can now be adjusted in 10% steps.

**********************

New test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure117.zip

1) Removed dumb desat.
2) Added more/finer "Highlight Desat" options. And renamed it to "Highlight Sat", because higher values mean higher saturation.
3) You can now choose the desat 2-4 mixture. A mixture of 0 is exactly desat 2. A mixture of 50 is exactly desat 3. And a mixture of 100 is exactly desat 4. So e.g. a mixture of 75 is exactly in the middle between desat 3 and desat 4. This should hopefully simplify testing different mixtures of desat 2-4.
4) There's only one desat strength setting now, with 100 = normal strength.
5) Added a new "avgHighlight ceiling" option, where you can choose factors in between 1.5x and 4.0x.

Would be great if we could narrow down on the "highlight (de)sat" and "desat mixture" options. Would like to pick a specific value for both soon and then get rid of the options, with only a "desat strength" option to remain.

P.S: FYI, I've designed the desat strength in such a way that with a strength of 100, the lady in The Greatest Showman should have roughly the same skin tone, regardless of which desat mixture you use.

******************************

Ok guys, here's yet another test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure118.zip

This time there are 2 new options called "repair space" and "repair range", which allow you to fine tune a processing step which madVR has been doing for a long time and which is supposed to reduce artifacts in various scenes. I think this repair step needs some fine tuning. Please double check this with:

1) Dumbledore fight image (from HP5).
2) Voldemort beam (from HP5).
3) Castle/Lake from Samsung Wonderland Two, Runtime 1:30.
4) City from Samsung Wonderland Two, Runtime 2:05.
5) Pan scene 2 (I think), where Captain Hook is flying and there are clouds.
6) Batman vs Superman green spear.
7) Mad Max, the two colored clouds (see attachment).
Mad Max, car explosion.

The 2 new options have a potentially big effect on all those scenes above. There will probably not be a setting which works best for each scene, so a good compromise is what we need. Here are some thoughts:

We want a big repair space to help 2).
We want a small repair space to help 7).
We want a big repair range to help 1).
We want a small repair range to help 7).

So what's the best compromise?

P.S: Please don't use "max" or "54" when testing this, because the repair doesn't seem to work very well for these.

***********************************

New build up:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure119.zip

1) I'm now using a repair space of 100, and the repair range is chosen depending on desaturation strength. The higher the desat strength, the less repair range I use. With no desat, I repair with 0.020. With 175 desat I use 0.010. In between it's interpolated.

2) Added an option to use dumb desat instead of desat 4 in the "mixture", because Neo-XP thought that dumb desat might be superior to desat 4. I've normalized the skin tone desat level at strength 100. But I've already noticed that at different strengths, desat 4 and dumb desat don't have the same strength. Please keep that in mind when comparing.

3) Added an option to clip the source to a specific nits level. FYI, the "hue shift TM instead of clip" option is currently not working yet.

4) Added the option to limit the amount of desaturation for various source nits ranges. This might allow reducing desaturation strength for CGI shots, while still keeping full desat strength for skin tones. No idea if this will be useful.

*************************

Here's a new test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure120.zip

Changes:

1) Fixed the madVR test pattern hue shift with clipping disabled.
2) Clipping now results in measurements also being clipped -> brighter image.
3) Added max2, max3 and max4 lum methods.

The new max methods avoid some of the artifacts (only the blue-ish ones) to some extent, but buy this by generally brightening up blue stuff quite noticeably. I'm not sure if that's a good trade-off. It looks good in many scenes. But it looks bad e.g. in the Pan flying ship scene and in Samsung Wonderland Two runtime 2:05.

Thoughts?

Has anyone tried the "desat reduction per source nits" yet? Is it useful? The purpose is to achieve nice skin tone desaturation, while maybe desaturating bright HDR CGI shots less.

*********************

New test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure121.zip

The only change is that the OSD now shows 2 new values: Namely a measurement of the darkest pixel in the top region of the movie (which is a black bar for scope movies), and a measurement of the darkest pixel in the center region of the movie. You need to create an empty file or folder called "ShowHdrMode" in the madVR folder to get the new measurements in the OSD.

This should help testing how many movies have raised black levels. And how many of them have raised black levels only in the center section or also in the black bars.

Caution: Difficult thing is that studio intros might be different to the actual movie.

**************************

Ok guys, new build up:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure122.zip

Changes:

1) Fixed: Black bar measurements were shown for last frame in the queue, not for currently visible frame.

2) Added "FALL highlight mod" algo. This algo might replace the sky detection? I'm not sure. It does result in the image getting generally a bit brighter. So when using this, you will have to adjust your DTN (dynaming tuning) value accordingly. But hopefully it should make scenes with bright skies brighter than other scenes, and generally make brightness overall more "stable" between different scenes. Please let me know if this works for you or not?

3) Added "FALL detail threshold" algo. This is a different approach, but with the same goal as 2). This one actually considers "detailed" pixels as being more important than "flat" pixels, and the histogram and FALL calculation is changed accordingly. So flat skies won't make the image as dark as they currently do. Please note that this approach currently modifies the look of the histogram graphs and will also affect HSTM (Contrast Recovery). So I would atm recommend to test this algo with HSTM disabled. It is possible for me to avoid the mentioned side effects, but I didn't have the time to do that yet. So let's first check if this algo is of any use. If it is, then I can make it not affect HSTM.

Looking forward to your feedback!

P.S: Next up is custom tone mapping curves, which I hope to release later this week. It's quite a bit of work, though. So it might rather be the end of the week than the middle.

» 10 Fév 2021 20:49

************************************

Et enfin la derniere datée du 4/02

Au passage teaser de madshi ==> https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improv ... t-60457637

Finally, the new build with custom tone mapping curves is ready for a first test:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure123b.zip

This was a HUGE amount of work. The key problem is that of course we want the curve to be optimal for scenes with high peak nits and low peak nits, with high FALL and low FALL. So how can we possibly handle that with custom curves? Well, I've solved it like this:

A) You can create custom curves for: 110, 509, 2230 and 10000 frame peak nits. These are 4 different curves. And madVR will seamlessly interpolate between them, depending on the measured peak of each video frame.

B) You can create custom curves for 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x and 16x dynamic tone mapping compression. These are 5 different curves. E.g. if your real display nits is 100nits and madVR's dynamic target nits (FALL algo) wants to render the current frame with a 200nits target, then you have a 2x factor, so the 2x curve is used. If the factor is 1.5x, madVR will interpolate the 1x and 2x curves.

Sadly, we want A) and B) to work at the same time, so there are actually 4 * 5 curves you can define. OUCH. I'm sorry about that, but I couldn't think of any other way to make everything work the way we're used to, but still allow fully custom tone mapping curves.

By default, if you just enter the custom curve editor and save the settings without changing anything, the image you get should be roughly the same as without the custom curves. Meaning, the custom curves default to what madVR does right now. But you now have full flexibility over the curves.

Editing curves is possible in various ways:

1) You can change the brightness compression factor.
2) You can change the knee (compression starting point) - but only as far as BT.2390 can handle.
3) You can change the curve steepness - but only as far as BT.2390 can handle.
4) You can apply a contrast modifier (positive or negative) to either the top or bottom of the curve.
5) If all of the above isn't enough yet, you can manually move every of the 21 curve points for each curve up and down to design a fully custom curve.

Please note that the curves you create are made for your real display peak nits. Your curves might not work for another user who has a different display peak nits. Maybe we can find a way to unify this somehow, but I'm not sure it's possible because a user with a 50nits projector will probably want to use different custom curves than a user with an 800nits LED or OLED.

Please also note that this is an experimental build and not necessarily meant for actual movie watching (although you can try). One thing not clearly defined yet is how madVR switches from simply clipping (if the movie peak is below your real display peak nits) to the custom curves. I assume it works well enough as long as you stick with the default curves. But I might need to add special handling in case you do strong changes (e.g. already doing 2:1 compression even if almost no tone mapping is needed).

P.S: Please understand that for every video frame, the tone mapping curve will usually be interpolated from 4 custom curves. E.g. if the frame peak is 300nits and madVR wants to render it with 1.5x brightness compression, then the tone mapping curve will sit right in the middle of these 4 curves: 110nits_1x, 110nits_2x, 509nits_1x, 509nits_2x. Of course this makes testing more complicated because you can't just modify 1 curve to check how it looks like. You may have to edit all 4. Unless you pick a scene which sits near to these thresholds. E.g. if you pick a scene with has near to 509nits and madVR wants to nearly compress by something near to 2.0x, then you can test by just modifying the 509nits_2x curve and the other 3 curves will have only very little impact.

et

Here's a tip to get started easier with testing the new custom tone mapping curves:

1) Disable the "dynamic target nits" option, for a start. This way madVR will only use the "x1" curves. So instead of having to work with 20 curves, it's now only 4 curves.

2) Look for a frame which is near to 509nits frame peak. This way madVR will only use the "509x1" curve. So now there's only 1 curve left to play with.

3) Try to modify the 509x1 curve to make this one frame look better.

Hope that helps getting started?

P.S: Whatever happened to Neo-XP? Hope he hasn't left us.

» 10 Fév 2021 20:51

Non,
Il y a une 123b qui traine, la 123 plantant.

» 10 Fév 2021 20:52

merci. Lien modifié

» 10 Fév 2021 20:58

Merci pour les liens, j'en avais loupé beaucoup ! Je connaissais 115 et 123b. Je reste avec 0.92.17 pour le moment car je regarde plus de SDR que de HDR.

» 10 Fév 2021 22:48

perso, je suis très content de la 114.
Donc changer ne tente pas trop.

Faut que je regarde ces changements....ca va pas etre simple car les modifications sont très subtiles....
Après l'introduction de la courbe du tone mapping sur la 123b semble sympa mais c'est la porte ouverte a n'importe quoi.

» 10 Fév 2021 22:48

perso, je suis très content de la 114.
Donc changer ne tente pas trop.

Faut que je regarde ces changements....ca va pas etre simple car les modifications sont très subtiles....
Après l'introduction de la courbe du tone mapping sur la 123b semble sympa mais c'est la porte ouverte a n'importe quoi.
et puis quand je vois le nouveau panel de réglage, je flippe !

J'espere qu'il y aura un peu de ménage fait bientot !

» 11 Fév 2021 0:13

perso je suis en 120 et j'attends que les paramètres deviennent plus simples. La 123b est trop compliquée pour ma petite tête.

» 11 Fév 2021 12:57

moi je suis aussi en 120 je ne change pas pour le moment deja que je trouve cela tres compliqué

après ça ne change quelque chose que pour le tone mapping?

» 11 Fév 2021 13:27

Il nous faudrait une 120 en version unlimited !
Je n’utilise pas le tone mapping mais je crois qu’il y a néanmoins des changements car il y a un panneau de config à droite dans l’onglet HDR que l’on coche ou pas le tone mapping via madVR.
Perso je le laisse inchangé.

» 11 Fév 2021 14:48

bigbluerabbit1 a écrit:Il nous faudrait une 120 en version unlimited !
Je n’utilise pas le tone mapping mais je crois qu’il y a néanmoins des changements car il y a un panneau de config à droite dans l’onglet HDR que l’on coche ou pas le tone mapping via madVR.
Perso je le laisse inchangé.

exact je me suis posé la question si ça influencerait quelque chose ce panneau etant donné que l'on est censé passé en pass through